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	<title>Comments on: Wondering about Beale&#8217;s Move to Westminster Seminary</title>
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	<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/</link>
	<description>The Jesus Tradition&#8212;Then and Now</description>
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		<title>By: Will Riddle</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-867</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Riddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Removing Enns and appointing Beale are two separate steps.  The removal of Enns, I think was the right thing to do for a place like WTS.  They were founded to occupy a conservative confessional place in the spectrum and they not only can but should defend that place.  One can say that Enns was not a liberal, but I would argue that liberalism is an orientation not a position. The SBC &quot;moderates&quot; are case in point.  Most of them were far more conservative than a true liberal, yet with time they were taking the denomination in an overall liberal direction before that development was arrested.  

The appointment of Beale seems a bit of an unnecessary slap in the face to Enns.  However, it affirms in the loudest possible way what the Seminary will be about confessionally.  I have to believe however, that Beale&#039;s appointment was as much about his portfolio as his role in this controversy.  Beale is in the top flight of evangelical scholars along with people like Don Carson.  Landing him gives WTS a breath of fresh air theologically as well as momentum in Biblical Theology.  

For those who suggest that their program is weak in this regard, what (non-liberal) option do you put forward as stronger?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Removing Enns and appointing Beale are two separate steps.  The removal of Enns, I think was the right thing to do for a place like WTS.  They were founded to occupy a conservative confessional place in the spectrum and they not only can but should defend that place.  One can say that Enns was not a liberal, but I would argue that liberalism is an orientation not a position. The SBC &#8220;moderates&#8221; are case in point.  Most of them were far more conservative than a true liberal, yet with time they were taking the denomination in an overall liberal direction before that development was arrested.  </p>
<p>The appointment of Beale seems a bit of an unnecessary slap in the face to Enns.  However, it affirms in the loudest possible way what the Seminary will be about confessionally.  I have to believe however, that Beale&#8217;s appointment was as much about his portfolio as his role in this controversy.  Beale is in the top flight of evangelical scholars along with people like Don Carson.  Landing him gives WTS a breath of fresh air theologically as well as momentum in Biblical Theology.  </p>
<p>For those who suggest that their program is weak in this regard, what (non-liberal) option do you put forward as stronger?</p>
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		<title>By: Esteban Vázquez</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-772</link>
		<dc:creator>Esteban Vázquez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sitzimleben.com/?p=23#comment-772</guid>
		<description>I watched the video of Beale&#039;s interview with Trueman and Garner, and found Beale&#039;s pledge of allegiance to Presbyterianism quite amusing: after all, he was ordained in, and indeed still belongs to, the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference. Of course, as the Westminster faculty pledge requires each voting faculty member to &quot;solemnly, ex animo, profess to receive the fundamental principles of the Presbyterian form of church government, as agreeable to the inspired oracles&quot; and not to &quot;oppose any of the fundamental principles of that form of church government, while I continue a member of the Faculty in this Seminary,&quot; I imagine Beale will have to change church affiliations.

Rob, biblical theology might be currently underrepresented at Westminster (especially since Gaffin&#039;s retirement), but this does not mean that it hasn&#039;t been its &quot;strong point.&quot; In fact, &quot;Old Westminster&quot; (and I use that like some use &quot;Old Princeton&quot;) was the standard bearer of Vos&#039; approach to biblical theology, and it&#039;s to its biblical theologians that we owe the currency of the Vosian approach to this discipline among Evangelicals (and others!) today. Also, while the &quot;Reformed tradition preserved in the Heidelberg Catechism&quot; is affirmed at Westminster, I believe it&#039;s fair to say that the institution itself is more closely aligned with the Reformed tradition preserved in the Westminster standards -- and there are very real differences of point and emphasis. In fact, Clair Davis suggests in his memoir that these differences were at the root of the Norman Shepherd affair.

And speaking of Davis, I recently saw that he has come out of retirement and is now teaching at the newly-formed Redeemer Seminary in Dallas (formerly the Westminster Dallas extension). I note that Dan McCartney has moved from Westminster to Redeemer, as well. It seems to me that we&#039;re witnessing the formation of the New Westminster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched the video of Beale&#8217;s interview with Trueman and Garner, and found Beale&#8217;s pledge of allegiance to Presbyterianism quite amusing: after all, he was ordained in, and indeed still belongs to, the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference. Of course, as the Westminster faculty pledge requires each voting faculty member to &#8220;solemnly, ex animo, profess to receive the fundamental principles of the Presbyterian form of church government, as agreeable to the inspired oracles&#8221; and not to &#8220;oppose any of the fundamental principles of that form of church government, while I continue a member of the Faculty in this Seminary,&#8221; I imagine Beale will have to change church affiliations.</p>
<p>Rob, biblical theology might be currently underrepresented at Westminster (especially since Gaffin&#8217;s retirement), but this does not mean that it hasn&#8217;t been its &#8220;strong point.&#8221; In fact, &#8220;Old Westminster&#8221; (and I use that like some use &#8220;Old Princeton&#8221;) was the standard bearer of Vos&#8217; approach to biblical theology, and it&#8217;s to its biblical theologians that we owe the currency of the Vosian approach to this discipline among Evangelicals (and others!) today. Also, while the &#8220;Reformed tradition preserved in the Heidelberg Catechism&#8221; is affirmed at Westminster, I believe it&#8217;s fair to say that the institution itself is more closely aligned with the Reformed tradition preserved in the Westminster standards &#8212; and there are very real differences of point and emphasis. In fact, Clair Davis suggests in his memoir that these differences were at the root of the Norman Shepherd affair.</p>
<p>And speaking of Davis, I recently saw that he has come out of retirement and is now teaching at the newly-formed Redeemer Seminary in Dallas (formerly the Westminster Dallas extension). I note that Dan McCartney has moved from Westminster to Redeemer, as well. It seems to me that we&#8217;re witnessing the formation of the New Westminster.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Kashow</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-754</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Kashow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sitzimleben.com/?p=23#comment-754</guid>
		<description>the reformed tradition preserved in the Heidelberg Catechism. Just to be clear, I wouldn&#039;t go to WTS, but I grew up ten minutes from the school and know for a conservative school they are highly academic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the reformed tradition preserved in the Heidelberg Catechism. Just to be clear, I wouldn&#8217;t go to WTS, but I grew up ten minutes from the school and know for a conservative school they are highly academic.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Wason</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Wason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sitzimleben.com/?p=23#comment-753</guid>
		<description>Thanks Rob. By tradition are you talking about the reformed tradition, or the traditional strengths of WTS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rob. By tradition are you talking about the reformed tradition, or the traditional strengths of WTS?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Kashow</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-752</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Kashow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>WTS was in a tough spot. They had to either support their tradition (H. cat)or engage and offer an alternative such as the one Enns was offering. They chose to continue their tradition. Fine. Beale&#039;s a conservative, but Biblical Theology is not WTS strong point. Now it is. In this regard, I don&#039;t think things are so monolithic there. 

So what is WTS? It&#039;s a safe place for conservative students to be exposed to the critical issues but to have a supporting staff who adheres to the tradition. 

I don&#039;t go to WTS, but I do go to a moderate/conservative school. (Though conservative schools would call my school liberal.) And I have made one observation: Conservatives have conservative literature and liberal literature in their libraries for their students to engage with. This has not been my observation with the liberal institutions, that is, the conservative literature is sparse in comparison with their own thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WTS was in a tough spot. They had to either support their tradition (H. cat)or engage and offer an alternative such as the one Enns was offering. They chose to continue their tradition. Fine. Beale&#8217;s a conservative, but Biblical Theology is not WTS strong point. Now it is. In this regard, I don&#8217;t think things are so monolithic there. </p>
<p>So what is WTS? It&#8217;s a safe place for conservative students to be exposed to the critical issues but to have a supporting staff who adheres to the tradition. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t go to WTS, but I do go to a moderate/conservative school. (Though conservative schools would call my school liberal.) And I have made one observation: Conservatives have conservative literature and liberal literature in their libraries for their students to engage with. This has not been my observation with the liberal institutions, that is, the conservative literature is sparse in comparison with their own thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Wason</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Wason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sitzimleben.com/?p=23#comment-749</guid>
		<description>Right, Nick! I am picking on WTS a little here just because of the exigency of the situation, but the same goes for any other school with a strong ideological focus--no matter their emphasis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, Nick! I am picking on WTS a little here just because of the exigency of the situation, but the same goes for any other school with a strong ideological focus&#8211;no matter their emphasis.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Norelli</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Norelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sitzimleben.com/?p=23#comment-748</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Brandon&lt;/b&gt;: It seems to me like it&#039;s six in one hand and a half-dozen in the other.  The problems that you&#039;ll find at more conservative schools like WTS I think would be found at less conservative schools as well, just on the other end of the spectrum.  Like you, I don&#039;t know the academic atmosphere of WTS, but I wonder how significantly it has changed or will change since Enns&#039; leaving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Brandon</b>: It seems to me like it&#8217;s six in one hand and a half-dozen in the other.  The problems that you&#8217;ll find at more conservative schools like WTS I think would be found at less conservative schools as well, just on the other end of the spectrum.  Like you, I don&#8217;t know the academic atmosphere of WTS, but I wonder how significantly it has changed or will change since Enns&#8217; leaving.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Wason</title>
		<link>http://sitzimleben.com/2009/06/22/wondering-about-beales-move-to-westminster-seminary/comment-page-1/#comment-743</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Wason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sitzimleben.com/?p=23#comment-743</guid>
		<description>Nick,

The main point I&#039;m trying to make is that diversity, especially at a seminary setting, is a good thing. Diversity tends to challenge the students more. I personally see WTS&#039;s move in the direction away from diversity and I understand that negatively. Of course someone can learn from a teacher with whom they agree. And of course it&#039;s good for students to study with teachers with whom they agree. And, yes, students should attend schools that they find to be a good &quot;fit.&quot; Now, of course professors can teach differing positions, but when the professors generally come from the same background and generally view issues through the same lens, I would &lt;em&gt;think&lt;/em&gt; that the students&#039; experiences will tend to be more monolithic. A scholar like Enns brought some diversity to WTS, which made me a little pessimistic about WTS&#039;s setting once they removed him. 

Do you really think a theological position like Enns&#039;s will get a fair treatment at WTS? Of course they will address it, but I doubt they will present it as well as Enns would. I&#039;m not just talking about Enns here, but any position, really. 

Now there are a number of reasons why people choose to go to seminary, and for some WTS is probably a good fit for various reasons. But for those who really want to critically engage the field of biblical studies, I personally would suggest a different school. Again I don&#039;t have personal knowledge about the academic atmosphere of WTS, so my judgment may be off. I simply see its scholarship moving away from diversity, which is what I was highlighting in this post. You&#039;re welcome to disagree with me, but that&#039;s how I see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick,</p>
<p>The main point I&#8217;m trying to make is that diversity, especially at a seminary setting, is a good thing. Diversity tends to challenge the students more. I personally see WTS&#8217;s move in the direction away from diversity and I understand that negatively. Of course someone can learn from a teacher with whom they agree. And of course it&#8217;s good for students to study with teachers with whom they agree. And, yes, students should attend schools that they find to be a good &#8220;fit.&#8221; Now, of course professors can teach differing positions, but when the professors generally come from the same background and generally view issues through the same lens, I would <em>think</em> that the students&#8217; experiences will tend to be more monolithic. A scholar like Enns brought some diversity to WTS, which made me a little pessimistic about WTS&#8217;s setting once they removed him. </p>
<p>Do you really think a theological position like Enns&#8217;s will get a fair treatment at WTS? Of course they will address it, but I doubt they will present it as well as Enns would. I&#8217;m not just talking about Enns here, but any position, really. </p>
<p>Now there are a number of reasons why people choose to go to seminary, and for some WTS is probably a good fit for various reasons. But for those who really want to critically engage the field of biblical studies, I personally would suggest a different school. Again I don&#8217;t have personal knowledge about the academic atmosphere of WTS, so my judgment may be off. I simply see its scholarship moving away from diversity, which is what I was highlighting in this post. You&#8217;re welcome to disagree with me, but that&#8217;s how I see it.</p>
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